Know Your Enemy: Pay Attention!

Know Your Enemy: Pay Attention!

Matt and Sam are joined by MSNBC’s Chris Hayes to discuss his new book The Sirens’ Call: How Attention Became the World’s Most Endangered Resource.

Know Your Enemy is a podcast about the American right co-hosted by Matthew Sitman and Sam Adler-Bell. Read more about it here. You can subscribe to, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Stitcher, and receive bonus content by supporting the podcast on Patreon.

We’re all anxious, and none of us can pay attention. We don’t read long books anymore; our kids don’t read at all. When we watch TV, we scroll at the same time. And we absolutely cannot be alone with ourselves. These are the symptoms of a modern malaise that is everywhere diagnosed but rarely treated with the dire seriousness it deserves: an epochal sickness that is fundamentally changing the way we relate to each other and to our own minds. What would it take to reclaim control?

Chris Hayes—journalist, author, and host of MSNBC’s All In—joins us to discuss his new book The Sirens’ Call: How Attention Became the World’s Most Endangered Resource. Together, Chris and the boys theorize how attention replaced information as the defining commodity of modern life. Along the way, we discuss our own struggles with social media addiction, prayer as an ancient technology for organizing attention, the evolutionary origins of attention-seeking, Donald Trump as the “public figure par excellence” of the attention age, and how to fight back against the corporate takeover of our minds. Toward the end, Chris explains how he’s navigating hosting his cable show amid another bewildering Trump era, which seems designed to divide and fragment our attention.

Further Reading:

Chris Hayes, The Sirens’ Call: How Attention Became the World’s Most Endangered Resource (2025)

Simone Weil, Gravity and Grace (1952)

Adam Phillips, Attention Seeking (2022)

Karl Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 (1844)

Kyle Chayka, FIlterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture (2024)

Shoshana Zuboff, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power (2019)

Daniel Immerwahr, What if the Attention Crisis Is All a Distraction? The New Yorker (2025)